[OOC]

[flip_the_lights]

Hello, Marvel-muns!

So not too long ago, Olivia ran into "Alex," and -- thanks to her own recent experience with being brainwashed/manipulated into believing she was somebody else -- kind of went on high alert. She's not sure yet whether she's jumping at shadows or whether this is something that needs serious pursuing, but either way, she figures something hinky is going on.

There's canon precedent that DC Comics exists in Fringeverse; it wouldn't be a big stretch to assume Marvel Comics exists there as well. What I wanted to check with y'all is whether it'd be okay for the specific Winter Soldier arc to exist in Fringeverse, too -- and whether it'd be all right for Olivia to read it.

I know this is a pretty serious canon-puncturing, so as far as these things can be reassured, some reassurances:

- She isn't a comics buff by any stretch; the ONLY comics she would be reading are the fourteen-odd issues gathered in the Winter Soldier Ultimate Collection, which would leave her ignorant to anything else Marvel-related.

- It's highly likely she would tell only one or two other people, tops, what was going on with Bucky -- and before she did, I would confer with the other mun to make sure their conversation stayed secret/didn't result in drastic action on the part of the other character.

- She would not tell anybody in the Marvelverse.

- She would not take drastic action of her own that would lead to totally screwing up the Winter Soldier arc (or any other arcs that rely on the events of WS) for everybody involved.

Basically, this would just be an informational thing that reassures Olivia that no, she's not jumping at shadows due to her own recent trauma and yes, Bucky really has been brainwashed. And obviously there are other ways to accomplish this result, so if anybody says "no, don't have her read WS/don't have it exist at all in Fringeverse," I am completely okay with that.

That's it! Let me know what you think, and if I can clarify anything, please let me know. <3

Comments

[bjornwilde]

This seems like a question for the Marvel Cinematic muns but for what it is worth, all of my comic pups are fine with comic knowledge being presented to them. The comics do exist within the comics after all.

[genarti]

I have no objection, but I also don't play anyone with a personal stake in the plotline! So I'm weighing in to register that I've seen it as an MCU mun, since it feels like I ought to, but obviously listen to the people who play Winter Soldier arc characters over me. :) (Edit: and I also play Thor, who's one of the most open-book characters in this universe, so doubly so.)

[misslucyjane]

I think it's mostly up to Bucky-mun, but I say yeah, go for it.

...Steve is going to be devastated when he learns about "Alex." Delicious, delicious angst.

[bcgphoenix]

Steeeeeeve. ;_;

It looks like Olivia will not be reading the comics, BUT I have another WS-related question for you while you're here! It would be IC for Olivia to try and get in touch with Steve to either ask "hey, do you know what's going on here?" or say "BUCKY'S ALIVE AND SOMETHING'S SERIOUSLY WRONG," since she knows he and Bucky were close. In the interest of not screwing up the arc, though, I could have her leave a note that says, "Please come find me when you have the chance" (out of the belief that this is way, way too big a thing to drop on somebody in a letter), and then they could just...keep missing each other for a year or something. Would that work? If not, I can steer her down a different path where she doesn't leave him any kind of note!

[thekidfrombrooklyn]

Well, I don't want him to know about Bucky until we see how the movie handles it, of course, so a year of missing each other would work.

[bcgphoenix]

*nodnod* I saw the back_room post when Aspen originally EP'd "Alex," so we are totally on the same page there. Avoiding is a go!

[varadia]

I will admit that making the comics universe explicitly fictional for direct research purposes weirds me out a little bit.

I know it won't affect X, and in general I don't have a problem with Marvel Comics existing in whatever universe, and since she's way post Civil War she knows the backstory anyway.

It just makes me a little twitchy. But I will survive.

[bcgphoenix]

Dude, "this weirds me out even though my character isn't directly involved" is a perfectly valid reason for me not to go through with it. <3 Is there any way I could handle it to make it less weird, or does the premise just hit too many uncomfortable buttons?

[varadia]

No, I think you're good to go, honestly!

It just felt disingenuous for me to comment with 'No, it's totally fine with me, go ahead!' when it weirds me out.

But it doesn't weird me out enough to want you to derail your plans or jump through hoops.

I just may end up asking for extra care if X and Olivia have any substantial interaction where X-men or something recognizable comes up. Recognition is A-OK, searching out further information via comics that have not already been read is discomfiting conceptually. In my brain somehow having read the comics and knowing stuff is fine, but seeking them out in order to know stuff is like one step too far. It's not really a strong point to stand on, I am aware, but I think that brain-twitch is where the weirdness is.

But, like I said, you are good to go!

[cute_bruiser]

Molly already knows that the bar has fictional people in it, and her older self has met comicsverse!Winter Soldier at one point or another, so she'll roll with it.

That said, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT TELL COULSON. I don't want him canon-punctured, especially not before we know what Marvel Phase 2 is really going to look like and specifically what the Winter Soldier movie's ramifications are.

[the_man]

...we should talk.

*steeples fingers*

I am fine with your scenario, but would be willing to help Olivia out with another way of learning what's up, if you like. And if Bucky's player agrees, obviously.

[bcgphoenix]

Oooh. And that would mean more threads with Fury. *serene*

Do you have an email address I can contact you at, so I can copy Bucky-mun on stuff, too?

[silveraspen]

Replying here as well for ease of tracking purposes -- per comment below I am all for this!

I will be online tonight if that aids discussion; alternately I will shoot you a PM.

[the_man]

I'll be around, though only until about 9PM your time. I'll try and catch you.

[mighty_avenger]

Not a problem with me! Carol's aware of alternate universes and that superheroes are fictional in some.

[ceitfianna]

Jen and I did a thread of Lee knowing who Professor X was, which worked out. Its fine for me but then I wouldn't be too greatly effected.

[biggerstingers]

Failure to mention the comics to Jan is greatly appreciated, other than that I'm cool with it.

[ashen_key]

- hmm. I've actually never read said arc (I'm not a comics girl; MCU all the way, with articles from various wikias), but it does (to my knowledge) go into Natasha and Bucky's affair, and the nasty fall-out from it, which Aspen and I are going to play with.

Okay. Although MCU =/= comics (which is a point that I'm aware I do go on about, but it's very, very true), I'm afraid I'm having to be the one to say "could you please not?" I completely get characters and their traumas, and trying to reassure them? But my issue is that that arc exposes some very painful bits of Natasha's history, and while I'm not sure exactly how Aspen and I are playing with it yet, we're keeping the general idea. And part of it is this IC...Natasha has honestly had so little privacy over the course of her life? If anyone is going to know about the time she had a raging affair with Bucky and it ended in brain-washing and induced-cyro-comas, I'm not really comfortable with that knowledge being gained from reading a comic because someone is worried about someone else, and her past just gets exposed along the way.

(Pups and their traumas, and all of that.)

So, while in general I'm perfectly fine with Marvel comics being around in Olivia's 'verse, I have to honestly say I'm not comfortable with this idea. Can I ask what your other ideas are? Because I do get that it'd be healthier for Olivia to know what's going on, just that this way is...weirding me out.

[bcgphoenix]

Absolutely zero worries, hon. <3 I can't actually remember myself if Bucky and Natasha's affair comes up (it seems reasonable that it would), but eeeyikes do I understand the "please don't invade my pup's privacy considering SO MANY PEOPLE have tried to take away her agency there" bit. So.

My other ideas are still kind of in that nebulous infancy stage, but it looks like Fury-mun might be able to help out there -- and Aspen offered to help me brainstorm, too. I can keep you in the loop as they develop to make sure no toes get stepped on?

[ashen_key]

I think at that bare minimum the Red Room be come up, and Nat's weird reactions (from what I remember from a few panels of her being very shaken), which given she's such a reserved person and - yes, exactly, privacy and agency. So, thanks for getting that <3

And yes, please do keep me in the loop! I can also help brainstorm, too, with what Natasha has told SHIELD/Fury herself (SHIELD, I've headcanoned, is aware of KGB experiments in brainwashing and memory alteration due to Natasha; she has lingering issues with the damage caused, such as migraines and tensions about remembering things. Which I am intending to play with in the bar, but that's another story) And if she's made the choice to tell and explain some of it, I'm a loooot more comfortable with that knowledge being known (even ifFury doesn't reveal his source), because it was her choice. Soooo, yes. In the loop is awesome, and I'm more than happy to help brainstorming myself :D

[nerves_of_ice]

Belated response, due to work/school and wanting to let others weigh in first!

Short version: I will be delighted to work with you and Fury-mun and Ashie et al to find a storyline that is great fun for all. :)